The following debate took place in the B.C. Legislature Thursday, Nov. 5. The transcript is taken from B.C. Hansard.

CRISIS LINES ON VANCOUVER ISLAND

Carol James: Mr. Speaker, today in the Legislature are representatives from the Vancouver Island crisis centres concerned about the elimination of regional crisis lines as of March 2010. They serve some of the highest-risk communities on the Island. They've helped countless people over the years. They're rooted in the needs of the community, and they're a proven model for health care delivery, including for first nations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But the government has decided to dismantle all six of these crisis centres without warning, without discussion, without any consideration for the impact. My question is to the Minister of Health: did he talk to any of these professionals? Did he consult any of the communities where these centres are before he decided to dismantle these crisis lines? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. Kevin Falcon: No, what we did was to learn from experience. What we've learned, for example, with the 811 NurseLine that operates in British Columbia is that having a single contact point actually makes a lot more administrative sense. It makes a lot more sense in terms of delivering the service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

On Vancouver Island, it is no different. Rather than have six different crisis lines with the attendant administrative costs associated with all six, it makes sense to have one line, one contact line with people that can answer and address the very serious issues that can arise in individuals' lives. That is a best practice, and it makes sense to do it on the Island. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

C. James: It's very clear that the minister didn't talk to the communities, because it makes no sense to the islands on the communities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Here are some comments from those people. The executive director of the North Island Crisis and Counselling Centre said: "In rural and remote areas, a crisis line is so much more than simply a call centre. We have local staff who respond to calls, who know who to call." This is what the mayor of Port Hardy said: "This decision is devoid of any local knowledge. It will result in delays for clients, escalation in incidents of violence and abuse." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Again, my question is to the minister: is he saying that front-line workers, health care professionals and community leaders are making up these concerns? Why is he abandoning the most vulnerable communities on our Island? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: Look, I understand that any change is difficult, and I understand that the NDP is opposed to making any changes in health care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Even with an almost-20-percent budget increase — in fact, on Vancouver Island, an over-20-percent budget increase over the next three years — there are still pressures. We have a responsibility in government to make sure that, in an era where with over a 20-percent budget increase there are still pressures, it should not be too much to ask the health authorities to look at how they deliver services to ensure that they're doing them in a manner that actually respects the massive amount of taxpayer dollars going into the system. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

What they did on Vancouver Island, having looked around at the success we've had around the province in terms of the 811 line, recognizing that that is a best practice, that that is actually the best way to deliver a service…. I understand that a change is difficult for the individual communities that enjoyed their service and would like to have it continue forever. The reality is that the approach they're taking is respectful of the fact that even in an era of 23-percent health budget increases, they still have a requirement to try and do the best they can with the dollars. That's what they're doing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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percent health budget increases, they still have a requirement to try and do the best they can with the dollars. That's what they're doing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

C. James: I'd like to remind this minister and every member of this government that they also have a responsibility to listen and consult the people of this province before they make decisions. If the minister had actually consulted these professionals, if he'd taken time, this is what he would have found. These crisis centres save lives. These cuts will hurt the aboriginal population particularly hard. Staff maximize those dollars and provide additional services, and those services now will also be lost because of this decision. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

According to Cliff Atleo Sr., the president of Nuu-chah-nulth: "There is no doubt that there will be negative impact to all people, but especially to our people." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

So my question again is to the minister. Why is he abandoning such a critical resource without consultation and without warning, and why won't he listen to the first nations leaders, the professionals and the people in the communities? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: This is coming from an NDP opposition that doesn't believe that, frankly, there should be any limits on administrative duplication or processes. It's not altogether surprising. It is the same NDP that thought it was appropriate to have 53 different health authorities across the province of British Columbia. That's the NDP model. So I understand in the NDP world more is always better, particularly on administrative duplication and overlap. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But actually, we do know one thing — that best practices... [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: …actually don't suggest that. In an environment where 23 percent budget increases are being provided…. There are still pressures which they will rail on about every single day, but then the moment you try to actually do anything to make sure the dollars are being spent appropriately, they rail on about that too. You can't have it both ways. We're trying to do the right thing here in British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Scott Fraser: In my constituency the KUU-US crisis line serves the citizens of the Alberni area and out to the west coast and on Vancouver Island. The society was formed because of Nuu-chah-nulth concerns over youth suicide. It was a community meeting in 1993 that led to the birth of the centre, a meeting between first responders, mental health workers and Nuu-chah-nulth members to address gaps in services for those in crisis. Last year 40 percent of their clients were aboriginal people living off and on reserve. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

To the minister. He knows the kind of impact this cut will have, particularly on first nations. How does he explain his failure to consult first nations leaders and communities before dismantling this lifeline for so many people in crisis? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: Let's try and follow the logic of the NDP opposition. What we should do, following their logic, is get rid of the 811 line and set up individual lines in every community in the province. Apparently, that is the best practice — have one in every community and let's just see if that's the best way to deliver the service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry, but what they're doing is fearmongering and, as usual, trying to pretend that any change is going to be disastrous when all the evidence says exactly the opposite. The 811 line is actually the best example of that — 24-7 service for every British Columbian across the province, easy number to remember, easy to access, excellent service, over 120 different languages. There's no reason why they can't replicate that on Vancouver Island. That's what they're trying to do, and they oppose every change in the system that might bring about a better use of dollars. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

S. Fraser: Fearmongering? This minister never fails to live down to expectation. Fearmongering indeed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[1400]

Here's what the president of the Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council, Cliff Atleo, went on to say about the impact of this cut and this decision: "We worked hard to address suicides and our troubled people only to be handcuffed by this cutback, which is unacceptable." But the [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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to say about the impact of this cut and this decision: "We worked hard to address suicides and our troubled people, only to be handcuffed by this cutback which is unacceptable." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But the minister is bent on pushing ahead with this shortsighted decision, a decision that is setting back our communities and dismantling our support systems — a decision made without any consideration for the impacts, particularly on first nations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Again to the minister…. How does he explain his failure to consult with anyone — first nations leaders, the affected communities, front-line workers, or health care professionals — before axing six vital crisis lines? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: In northern British Columbia we also have many first nations. We've got many rural communities. We've got a number of communities spread over an area that's two thirds of the province. Guess what. They've got a single crisis line. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Do you know what's incredible about that? The world didn't come to an end. You know, chaos and disorder and panic have not arisen over the fact that there is a single crisis line serving the entire population of northern British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I know that the NDP.... You can't have any change. God forbid if the change might involve eliminating duplication. I realize that goes against the very core of their being. But this is a best practice. It has been demonstrated over and over. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I know change is difficult, but we are asking the health authority, in an era of 23 percent budget increases, to also manage those dollars well for the benefit of Vancouver Island residents. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Bob Simpson: The youth suicide rate is substantially higher than non-aboriginal suicide rate. That's not a piece of administrivia. That's a stark reality in first nations communities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

First nations people and youth work best with direct access to community-based resources, not some stranger in a lowest-bid call centre somewhere else in the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

My question is to the Minister of Aboriginal Relations. Will the minister intervene with VIHA and ensure that the first nations communities throughout Vancouver Island get the resources that they are demanding, which are community-based resources explicitly for first nations youth and other first nations individuals in crisis? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: That's actually an insult to all the professionals that work hard to deal with individuals like that every single day. It's an insult because it's a classic example of the NDP — that every change has got to be bad, it's got to be the worst possible outcome, it's got to not serve British Columbians. That is nonsense. For them to raise that kind of spectre and try and pretend that the professionals involved that serve first nations every day don't do that to the best of their abilities, I think, is an outrage. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

B. Simpson: What's an outrage is the people who are in here today whose jobs have been cut, who have served their communities, who know intimately how first nations youth live, know where they live and know how best to allow first nations youth to make a decision to stay alive the next day. Those people, I'm sure, are outraged by the minister's offhanded and political responses to our questions today. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I happened to phone one time to the Tourism B.C. 1-800 number for a campground in Bowron Lake. They didn't know where Bowron Lake was and they didn't know if a camp site was available. I don't know what would happen to a first nations young person who, in crisis, phones a lowest-bid call centre and asks for help. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

To the Minister of Aboriginal Relations…. Instead of flipping pages in a binder, will he stand up and commit today to intervene with VIHA and make sure that first nations communities are resourced appropriately? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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Hon. K. Falcon: All I can say [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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first nations communities are resourced appropriately? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: All I can say is that it's disappointing, to say the least, to listen to that kind of nonsense come out of that member. To always try and suggest that every change is just going to bring about the end of the world as we know it, when, in spite of all the evidence, in spite of the fact that we can point to examples like 811 that have been enormous successes…. Apparently, according to that member, the 811 line really should be dismantled, and we should set up one in every community. That's the only way, apparently, we can deliver good service in the province of British Columbia. What nonsense. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I get that those members just can never even imagine a change that is going to bring about better service. They're incapable of believing that even with 23 percent budget increases we still have to try and do more to make sure we provide the best possible service to people on Vancouver Island. That's what VIHA is trying to do, and for that member to try to politicize it like that and then pretend that we're politicizing it is nonsense. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Jenny Kwan: Well, according to this minister, the mayor of Port Hardy is wrong, then; the director of the North Island Crisis and Counselling Centre is wrong; the president of the Nuu-chah-nulth community. They are wrong. This minister is right that there is no need to talk to front-line workers to ensure that they have the best services available to people who are in crisis in their communities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

If the minister is so convinced that he is correct, why is he afraid to consult with them? Will he commit today to meet with all the guests that are here today who demand the appropriate respect that they deserve in the community and getting the crisis line services that they deserve in their community? Will he commit to that today? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. K. Falcon: I'll tell you who's wrong. Who's wrong is the NDP trying to politicize a change that can actually bring about better service. Who's wrong is the NDP trying to suggest that, where we've seen it work in other areas of the province, oh no, it can't possibly work on the Island. The Island must be a bastion that is impervious to any kind of change, no matter what the evidence shows. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The fact is that the Crisis and Intervention and Information Centre for northern B.C. provides crisis counselling for the people of the entire north. That is coverage from the Alberta border to the east, to the Queen Charlotte Islands in the west, from Quesnel in the south to the Yukon border. They do it very successfully. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

It covers first nations. It covers non–first nations. It covers, rural, remote. It does a great job, and that's why these members cannot even countenance the idea that any change might actually have some benefits. I know they want to stick with a system where duplication and administrative costs six different times is the better way to go, but actually, a best practice is worth following, where it works elsewhere in the province. That's what VIHA is trying to do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]